WTB Comments on the speech from Digital Narm since I can't find a single article about it anywhere and it was heavily rumored to deal with the Zune.

http://www.cliczune.com/2007/05/the_zune_phone_.html

Zune phone is dead. Long live...WM + Zune

ummm ?

Cesar, why haven't you commented on yesterdays zune related keynotes at mix07 and at NARM? The official timetable of keynotes at narm said that the zune keynote would tell of "new and exciting developments", so what I want to know is what are these developments and if there were no new announcements then what did they talk to the audience about during those hours? You work with Robbie Bach and Christina Calio so I presume you would know.

Oh ok; so this is THE big news from the conference ! Wippyyyyyy....

No thank you.

http://www.lotropolis.com

what's up Ray - Christina's presentation at NARM didn't have any new announcements - but she did talk about what's new and exciting with Zune - all of those things I've written about on this site. I'm trying to dig in to find Robbie Bach's comments at MIX07 - I've found a few sources, so I'll be posting those in a bit.

Thanks Cesar.

Off topic but as I said a while back I am thinking about getting a zune off ebay (i'm in Europe) and what I have noticed is that many of the zunes come with the zune premium headphones so what I would like to know is has anyone on here had any experience with them and are they good? Also what does the white zune look like in person cause I am leaning more towards that colour at the moment (it's also the cheapest of the 3 colours)

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

Yay, free music! I've always liked Mandy Moore, and if you like Imogen Heap then surely you're familiar Frou Frou, her collaborative effort with Guy Sigsworth. It's awesome, and available on ZMP :-)  Thanks, Cesar!

eheh...Zune outsider..indeed

@ray (off topic)

I have the premium and the regular earphones, and both have pros and cons. The premium phones sound great, fit well, and have the same magnetic coolness that the regular phones have. They fit deep and snug in your ear, so you can't really hear anything that's happening around you. I prefer to hear my environment as well (to avoid getting run over, missing someone shouting for me, etc) so I mostly use the regular phones, which still sound great and look cool. The premiums are super-handy on an airplane, though, as the regular phones don't block out the engine sound.

On a side note, I'd like to add a "with" to my previous post, between the "familiar" and the "Frou Frou"  :-)

@ ray...white looks like ice

http://www.zunescene.com/forums/index.php?topic=4548.0

http://www.zunescene.com/forums/index.php?topic=4548.msg92409#msg92409

http://www.zunescene.com/forums/index.php?topic=4548.msg76540#msg76540

the premium earphones sound good and better than the stocks

http://www.zunescene.com/forums/index.php?topic=14473.0

Thanks Telekinetyk, that was very helpful and informative:)

Oops, I didnt see your post Ricardo so thankyou too for going to the trouble of getting all those links!

Cesar, have you guys kicked off your new advertising campaign yet?  And secondly, with XBox Spring Update coming in just a few days is there anything Zune users will be able to take advantage of on the XBox?

Thanks

John - I think the new ad campaign launches next week, and I'm not sure about the Xbox Spring Update (although I doubt it)!

even the attendees were expecting something better

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=9217

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/050207-mix-microsoft-fails-to-impress.html

Zune Team: Overpaid and Underachievers....that is your new slogan.

Holy cow, free content only comes once and a lifetime, thats right I downloaded it :) Anywho, i agree with that link Ricardo put up about the zune phone being dead, i'd concentrate also on developing a base with the zune+marketplace, and windows mobile using it. If it's legal issues, let's speed up the process and get videos to the marketplace, please for crying out loud.

Um... yea Ricardo, did you hope that no one would actually follow the links and actually read the articles?

The articles discuss a MS presentation that was not Zune specific. In fact, the word "Zune" is not mentioned once in either article.

Go troll elsewhere. Applicable criticism is helpful and appreciated. The Zune team does not deserve your currently groundless and infantile desrespect.

In other news... Telekynetic, I have the V-Moda Vibe earbuds. They have superior sound quality and fit AND they don't block out sound. The Vibes actually have a driver similar to any normal speaker. There is a small opening on the exterior of each bud similar to a port on a subwoofer. It also means you hear everything around you. Some call it a drawback. Not I.

I dug Mandy Moore's "Coverag" album and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE Rachel Yamagata (who apparently produced at least one song on this album). However, this song, "Extraordinary" is not impressing me one bit. I may give it a listen out of curiosity.

P.S. I used to have the BIGGEST crush on Mandy Moore.... kind of still do.

:)

New news today: Creative announces the Zen Stone to compete with shuffle, it's going to sell for only $40! I think it looks great and at half the price of the shuffle I'd say it will sell well but it could do so much better if Creative had more money to actually advertise it as they are still making big losses (the only reason they made a profit a while back was because they won a big lawsuit against apple). Anyway here it is:

http://epizenter.net/news.php?extend.279

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/stone-groove/creative-introduces-teeny-tiny-zen-stone-257294.php

http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/03/creative-shuffles-out-tiny-zen-stone/

And the official creative page:

http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=16424

Creative stone...falling back to the bottom of the (i)river...who cares ?

a DAP w/o screen in 2007 ? nuts

Umm, it's not supposed to be your primary DAP with a screen and 30gb. It's designed to be used while at the gym etc and for you not to notice it's in your pocket. You said " a dap without screen in 2007-nuts". How is it nuts?- just look at how well the shuffle sells and other tiny mp3 players. The reason I brought it up here is because I thought it would interest the Zune crowd cause,as you know, ms will also be releasing a player in the same low end category so therefore the creative stone would be in competition with the zune.

You've also got to remember that the player is only $40!

Hey Cesar, what’s up?  Thanks so much for all these freebies!  The Zune team is really doing a great job with adding new music to the marketplace and giving away great music for free!  Thanks so much, I love you!

$40 for one gig of space? and audible support? I am sold. That solves my audio book prob.

@ the shuffle sells cause is the less expensive iPod FROM THE FULL IPOD FAMILY. Not 'cause it doesnt have screen

Do you get it? iPod family.

Zune team: if you release a Zune w/o screen, WiFi or FM radio (even if a selling success) you are following the iPod trend and that is nuts.

@The Baker:

I've heard only good things about those (V-Moda Vibe), but I didn't know all of that... sounds like the best of both worlds. Thanks!

Timedrifter said:

"$40 for one gig of space? and audible support? I am sold. That solves my audio book prob."

Creative made a good move supporting Audible's format.

This device actually looks pretty darn compelling.

Can't wait to see the Apple response. They may drop the price on the 1GB shuffle and add a 2GB model?

Yeah, today Audible support is a differentiator. I'm not sure what Microsoft could do to address this gap because of exclusivity between Audible & Apple.  Its not an end-to-end solution if you have to use Audible software.  If only their was a "real" alternative to Audible.  Someone who had a web 2.0 platform/sdk that you could use with almost any frontend application.

Audible 1st Qtr Earnings Webcast today @5pm EST

http://www.audible.com/ir

^^ LOL, why Apple should care about another shuffle knock off ?

@John in S.Florida

Quote:

Yeah, today Audible support is a differentiator. I'm not sure what Microsoft could do to address this gap because of exclusivity between Audible & Apple.  Its not an end-to-end solution if you have to use Audible software.  If only their was a "real" alternative to Audible.  Someone who had a web 2.0 platform/sdk that you could use with almost any frontend application

Audible is not exclusive to Apple, Creative has it, also there is software available for Windows Mobile, and WMP. So it should not be hard to add.

Cavan

Ricardo Dawkins said:

"^^ LOL, why Apple should care about another shuffle knock off ?"

For the very same reason Microsoft should care about competition in the OS space.

If Apple wants to maintain their position in the DMP market, they need to be fully aware of what their competitors are doing and they need to have their fingers on the pulse of the consumer. They need to be agile and be able to give the people what they want.

Compare and contrast with Microsoft's dominant market position with Windows. Over the last several years, we've seen Microsoft drop the ball on Windows development again and again. Dropped features. Missed deadlines. And the whole time, Microsoft's competitors in the OS space, largely Mac OS X and Linux, have been gaining market share. Sure, it's slow. But, it's happening. And it's happening because Microsoft laughed at their competitors. They ignored them. And now, they are paying the price. Dell is starting to ship Ubuntu Linux. Diehard Windows users are switching to the Mac.

If Apple doesn't want to pull a Microsoft in the DMP space, they darn well better care about "another shuffle knock off".

Remember the fall of the Roman empire? It was caused in large part by complacency.

dell linux...uhhh..dell is shipping linux since 1999.

http://news.com.com/Dell+hones+its+Linux+efforts/2100-1001_3-226405.html

How many Linux power users will be buying a DELL ?

Windows users switching to Mac and paying the MAC tax ...come on...are you for real ?

Mac marketshare is struggling to not fall below 3%. Linux have more marketshare than Mac in some researchs.

The Zen Stone looks like a shuffle skin. Its the geeky shuffle. Nothing special. Apple will not care.

Do you know that iriver developed a screen less DAP that at least has FM tuner ? it is called the iriver S7.

Hey don't PlaysForSure also support Audioble? Why can't the Zune? Oh and throw in podcast support, still waiting!

I have cashed in my zune. i knew it would happen. i grew impatient. maybe microsoft will get it right with a product update. there are still no videos in the marketplace. one of zunes main features is the nice widescreen... for what???? nothing good about the wifi.... and the software is so slooooooow. I just got tired of waiting for something that isnt happening.

^^expected. no problem man. so long.

timedrifter...Audible is available via the iTunes store & rights management is baked into iTunes.  All other devices require Audible's software that makes use of Windows Media Player.  Zune is not a PlayForSure device and won't work with WMP.  If you are going to call Zune an end-to-end solution it needs to have content available through its store/interface. what are your thoughts?

Jeff,  I don't think you're alone. I'm starting to see Zune's pop up for sale quite frequently on Craigslist these days. I have to say, as a product launch, Microsoft has done a pretty poor job with Zune.

It's been almost 6 months, and 22 million+ iPods later and Zune has yet to add those new firmware-updated features that were touted as an advantage over the iPod. The iPhone is almost out, and new iPods surely will be here by fall.

I get that Zune is a new product, but you would think Microsoft would be moving much faster if they were serious about competing in this market. They barely compete with existing Apple products, let alone the newer models surely soon to come.

Wow, that Stone is cool. $40 for a GB Shuffle in 6 colours, and much shinier than the iPod. Looks like you can even have it play in order..

I'm sold. I've wanted a Shuffle for a while but I couldn't see paying $80 for something I'd just use sometimes. $40 is perfect.

Stone + Zune for the win! :-p

Ricardo,

Actually Dell just started shipping Ubuntu Linux. Zuneless specified Ubuntu Linux. Ubuntu Linux is the most respected Linux distribution, so there's a little difference now. Also, Dell just started shipping XP - again - by consumer request. That sure says a lot for Vista.

And yes, several public die-hard windows users have switched to Mac.

And, Mac marketshare is not falling. Even Windows pundits like Paul Thurrott will admit that Mac share is gaining. Oh did I mention, Paul and his wife use Macs.

I do agree with the rest.

Jeff,

Just as a side note for clarification. Maybe you didn't mean it like I read it, but Zune's screen is larger but not proportionally wider than an iPod or most other PMP. It has the same 4:3 aspect ratio. Widescreen is a pre-release myth that never died out after the official Zune specs were released.

Ricardo Dawkins said:

"dell linux...uhhh..dell is shipping linux since 1999."

Actually, Ricardo, if you do your research, you'll find that Dell halted Linux sales at Microsoft's behest in 2001:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/03/19/microsoft_killed_dell_linux_states/

So, Dell has brought Linux back as an offering, in a big way. Perhaps this might be the reason?

http://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.html

Ricardo also says:

"How many Linux power users will be buying a DELL ?"

Who says these offerings are for Linux power users? They aren't. If you look, you'll see that they are low end machines intended for basic home use. The perfect environment for a Linux distro such as Ubuntu.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070501-dell-to-offer-ubuntu-linux-on-a-select-assortment-of-budget-computers.html

Ricardo says:

"Windows users switching to Mac and paying the MAC tax ...come on...are you for real ?"

Yes, I am for real. The proof is in Apple's own numbers. Macs are selling like never before, and a good percentage of buyers have never owned one before.

http://www.tuaw.com/2007/04/25/apple-financial-results-q2-2007/

Oh, and that "Mac tax"? It's a myth that's been disproven time and time again.

http://www.macnightowl.com/2006/05/25/perpetuating-the-myth-of-expensive-macs/

http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36120.html

http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2005/04/of-course-macs-are-more-expensive.html

I could go on. This particular piece of insidious FUD continues to fester.

Ricardo says:

"Mac marketshare is struggling to not fall below 3%."

I won't argue marketshare numbers. I think we've all come to recognize just how unreliable they are.

Keep lining them up, Ricardo, I'll keep knockin' 'em down.

ey man, your boss did some interview for a online magazine...did you read it ?

It's on www.zune-online.com

What's this "connected entertainment" Robbie Bach keeps talking about, and will it come to the Zune before the iPhone and G6 iPod take over the world again?

Another good read by Paul Thurrott about the different approach between Apple and MS:

http://www.internet-nexus.com/2007/05/microsoft-poised-to-rule-entertainment.htm

"Microsoft's approach to this stuff is so typical, it's hard to remember that these are the guys who were supposed to be so different from the rest of the company. It's OK to have a vision, I guess. But Microsoft thinks in terms of platforms, not great products. Apple does it the reverse way: Ship something drool-worthy and watch people snatch it up. Do it again. And again. Suddenly, there's a platform sitting there. Microsoft spends so much time plotting platforms that by the time the vision is complete, the world has already moved on. The old way of doing things doesn't work any more. Isn't that why they copied Apple with the Zune in the first place?"

Copy Apple..LOL where is the Wifi and radio FM with RDS on the iPod, where is the scratch-less body...where is the background changing ?

When the G6 comes with this features then you can talk about copy....but in the sense of copycats..LOL

@Zuneless

To put things in perspective.

Q1 2007 Apple shipped 1,517,000 Macs.

Q1 2007 PC shipments were 62.7 million

Apples share: 2.4%

http://custom.marketwatch.com/custom/iwon-com/news-story.asp?guid={BF423BD3-3709-445D-A3FC-88B8BEF0EF01}

"H-P's shipments rose by almost 29% from the same period a year ago"

Q1 2007 - Apple shipped 1,517,000

Q4 2006 - Apple shipped 1,606,000

Q3 2006 - Apple shipped 1,610,000

Q2 2006 - Apple shipped 1,327,000

http://www.apple.com/pr/

All of Apples growth is year over year, not Quarter to Quarter.

They've stopped growing.

Sales increasing...

LOL

@ Ricardo

You do understand Paul is talking about the Zune copying Apple's strategy of a closed ecosystem right?

I think Zune 2.0 needs to get here fast so Paul (Mr. Windows supporter) can have a more positive attitude towards the Zune.

@John s

timedrifter...Audible is available via the iTunes store & rights management is baked into iTunes.  All other devices require Audible's software that makes use of Windows Media Player.  Zune is not a PlayForSure device and won't work with WMP.  If you are going to call Zune an end-to-end solution it needs to have content available through its store/interface. what are your thoughts?

You are right. The perfect solution is (Excuse the pun) One Software to rule them all. Now, while zune does not represent that solution, Windows Media Player does, including audible. The best move Microsoft could make, is to scrub the ZMP software, and port the zune and the marketplace over to WMP, even if they do not enable PFS. They at least need Audible. And iTunes still needs software downloading from audibles site, just like WMP. And I believe each can sync with their appropiate Mp3 player. So, as Audible goes, they are both in the game.

Cavan

P.S. Very bad day today, so if I do not make any sense, forgive me

@timedrifter

I just wanted to know why you leave the word Cavan at the end of all your posts cause where i'm from (ireland) that is a the name of a county and I've never heard that name used outside of Ireland. If it's your name, do you have Irish roots?

Ricardo,

Regarding Apple and Mac - Let's look at the trend, not the moment...

Q4 02    734000

Q1 03    743000

Q2 03    711000

Q3 03    771000

Q4 03    787000

Q1 04    829000

Q2 04    749000

Q3 04    876000

Q4 04    836000

Q1 05   1046000

Q2 05   1070000

Q3 05   1182000

Q4 05   1236000

Q1 06   1254000

Q2 06   1112000

Q3 06   1327000

Q4 06   1610000

Q1 07   1606000

Q2 07   1517000

Now let's put things into perspective from a long time investor who pays attention to the markets and the numbers - me.

Apple market share in 2005: 2.28%

Apple market share in 2006: 2.41%

Apple market share in 2007 Q1: 2.49%

Notice a slow trend...

"Worldwide PC shipments totaled 62.7 million units in the first quarter of 2007, a 8.9% increase from the same period a year earlier, according to preliminary results by research firm Gartner while International Data Corporation (IDC) stated worldwide PC shipments grew 10.9% during the period."

Figures are based on year-over-year – What’s your complaint about year over year?. HP's shipments rose by almost 29% from the same period a year ago.  Now, what was Apple's increase from the same period a year ago?  Go ahead... I'll wait.

As long as each quarter is increasing from the same quarter in the previous year - that's called growth. When we see a trend of year-over-year stalling or decline well... then I'll think about selling my stock.  Oh and Apple's clearly showing that they can be very profitable with their share of the market.

So I assume you looked up Apple growth for Macs from a year earlier.

Year over year growth overall PC: 8.9%

Year over year growth HP: 29%

Year over year growth Mac: 36%

I don't mind owning a piece of a company that's growing its computer sales by 36% year over year.

@Ray

Yes it is my first name. I am about 75% irish, but I was born and raised in the USA. I believe it is also a Town too.

Hey Cavan, yup it's also the name of a town too.

Woo hoo there's someone on zuneinsider who's 3/4 irish!