Sep 14, 2006
Answers to (some) of Your Zune Questions
by Cesar Menendez at 2:39 PM

I was going to leave a comment in my last post answering questions, but I decided to make a new one.

So first off, we're not announcing availability or launch date today. And we're not announcing price. But I can tell you to wait till you see it officially, and that Zune will be competitively priced . . .

On Zune file formats: Zune will support your existing, unprotected, music library (MP3, AAC and WMA files), as  well as video formats (WMV, H.264, MPEG4, 320x240), and JPG photo files.

We're still testing battery life, so I can't give you a definitive answer. When it's final, I'll post, and I'll get you info on how long Zune takes to charge.

Zune will play podcasts. I'm actually listenting to a podcast right now. If you bring the audio file into the software (like a wma or mp3 file), you can play it on your Zune. Beyond that, there will be other options for podcasting support for future releases.

<edit Tuesday Sep 19> I clarified how DRM works on Zune in this post. Mea culpa.

You can plug your Zune device into your Xbox 360 to stream music, pictures, and video, via USB cable. Get all your Zune content on the TV in your living room.  Also, when Zune launches, foks who also have a Media Center Edition 2005 PC will be able to access and play any music they downloaded from Zune Marketplace.  You can access this music just like they would their regular music libraries – in Media Center’s “My Music” folder.  This music will playback just like other songs in your library. Oh, and the Points you have in Xbox Live will transfer to Zune (you need the same passport). They're Microsoft Points.

Got more questions? Drop a comment.

Tags: ,
174 Comments
Comments
I was wondering when it was going to come out and if it was going to be able to connect to a Mac and Itunes instead of using a different online music store.
Can I use MS Points for song downloads? Is that going to be the native currency for zune (I hate the 100mp = $1.25 ratio). Or is it for application download (Live Arcade?)
Will it sync with WMP 11 directly, i.e. show up as a syncable device right in WMP? Or do you have to go thorugh the Zune Marketplace software? If the latter is true, it is a disaster!
So I dont know if you adressed this, but will there be a web broswer?
For the record, above iPod's price is NOT competative priced. You guys really need to play the money card on this one... On a side note: Cesar you arent a large fellow. :P And on one of the Flickr pics it looks like you don't have all of your legs. Will the Zune only play movies in 320*240? Can you explain why Zune does not support DRM'd WMA? And does MPEG4 mean XVID or DIVX support?
No WIFI/Network streaming to a 360? So, if I have a home network with wifi. I cannot connect my zune to my wifi router (which my 360 is plugged into) and stream? Or can I? Can the WIFI on the Zune allow me to purchase music wirelessly? or do I need to sync?
Is it possible to stream video trough Wi-Fi? Does the Zune support H.264 videos encoded at a greater resolution than 320x240?If this is the case, what's the maximum resolution/bitrate acepted by the player? Thanks!
with the recent announcment of the new ipod coming out at 30 gigs and a price point of $249, will the zune be competitve with apple? also will i be able to use the zune with other online music stores like urge or napster?
Related question... Is it a fair assumption to say that the Zune and the Gigabeat are at least "cousins"?? (If not half brothers lol). If that's the case, any word if the Gigabeat will be updated to support MPEG4 and H.264 like the Zune?? Being stuck at WMV is kind of annoying I'm finding out...
Great to finally see this announced officially. A couple of questions: - What will the price be? I'm assuming it will have to be $250 or less to compete with iPod. Preferably less if the Zune will have even have a chance against the iPod. $200 or less will definitely make people turn their head and think hard about the decision between a new iPod or new Zune. - Please tell me I don't need to hit a button 6+ times to shuffle the current playlist? I hate this on the iPod. - What will the software integration be? WMP11? Zune Marketplace? If it's WMP11, I sure hope someone with more design experience looks over WMP. The major reason why I think the iPod is popular is its seemless integration with iTunes and how the whole experience works so well. Zune will definitely need this experience. - The wifi/media sharing is definitely a plus with the Z. You guys really need to fix the DRM issue though, perhaps tag music files on the computer before they are transfered to the device so the device knows whether to DRM files or not.
Is it really not URGE compatible? A lot of us jumped at URGE, having confidence because Microsoft was behind it.
What will the charger/transfer plug on the zune look like? In the photos I've seen of the Zune, it looks like an iPod's. Is it the same, or is it something completely new?
"You can plug your Zune device into your Xbox 360 to stream music, pictures, and video, via USB cable." Are you sure about streaming movies? Today, it's only possible to stream movies (to the 360) from a Windows Media Centre PC.
wait so are podcasts put in a sepearte podcasts section. ( music/podcasts? ) or are they treated as regular mp3 files ( i hope not cause then I have to make seperate playlists and cannot have ZMP autodelete and add them? ) also are they going to be called podcasts? I know creative calls them zencasts, so what are yours? zunecasts? so can video files not be saved at 480 resolution? cause even if the player could only play 240 resolution, I would like to save them at 480 so it would look better on tv.
"Zune will play podcasts. I'm actually listenting to a podcast right now. If you bring the audio file into the software (like a wma or mp3 file), you can play it on your Zune. Beyond that, there will be other options for podcasting support for future releases." Translation - no actual podcast support. There's no podcast directory, and there will be no support for importing your podcast RSS feeds to the software app and having it download them. All you can do is use Juice or Doppler or whatever to grab your podcasts and then manually import the MP3s or WMAs into your library, just like you can with every other music player that doesn't really have any kind of "podcast support." LAME LAME LAME. "Community" oriented player my ass.
will it support gapless playback? i was shocked to see apple finally support it and i must say it will seal the deal for them if the zune lacks this feature. also, is there no lossless support (besides wma)? this is a bit troubling.
"There currently isn't a way to sniff out what you are sending, so we wrap it all up in DRM" That is total crack - it is my frikin artwork why the hell are YOU applying DRM? So the 'experience' I create is is to not use this device to help me distribute original content - this sucks.
If I have a Media Center PC and am using it to record television, will the Zune automatically upload and play those shows both on the device and on my TV if I attach it to that? (I'm seriously considering getting a GigaBeat just to do this.) I understand that Microsoft will automatically download Zune versions of iTunes downloads to help iPod users switch (correct?) If I currently have purchased and subscription content from other stores, is it going to be easy to switch to a Zune subscription and transfer all my content? How soon are you going to work on a smaller flash player? You do realize that Apple sells more Nanos than anything else in the iPod line, and that's really the market you should be trying to enter.
Let me get this straight - You will be able to stream video from your Zune to your 360, correct? (just checking, as something similar was announced about WMP11, which turned out to be an error)
Oh and another question. I'm currently and iPod/iMac user and one thing that was important for me to make the switch to Zune is that it supports AAC - Which it does, so well done on that one. However, will I be able to sync the Zune with my iTunes library from my iMac? Or is this a Windows-only device - if so, you have lost me, I'm afraid.
I'm already in love with the player, so my Qs are more about Marketplace... 1. Will Zune Marketplace be synched into Media Player 11 (like URGE is) or will it be a seperate piece of software? 2. Will ZM sell videos? (I am imagining it will.) 3. Gapless playback on Zune? Please say it shall be so. 4. You know how AOL Full CD Listening Party lets you listen to albums online the week they are released? Will ZM offer such capabilities by letting artists loan a 3-day version of their album to listen on Zune anyplace - instead of having to sit in front of a computer?
P.S. I agree with Skullfire (above): Bring it to the Mac, PLEASE!!!!
So it mostly looks good... but you lost me at two key things: 1. No Mac/Linux Support. I'm a person that uses Macs and PC's at home. All of my music is in iTunes as well as WMP (I have MCE too), and can be accessed from any of my PC's or Macs. No support for Macintosh is a joke. 2. DRM on all shared content (ie on my original works) - where is the community in this? Where is the "YouTube of music" culture? If I put a movie up on YouTube, it doesn't stop playing after 3 plays. I hear the Xbox team, and now the Zune team talk about community and how the world is changing - yet you guys, with all of the magical super powered skills in software that you supposedly excel in; can't work out a way for us to create our own content and share it without DRM. Again... a joke. Fix number 1 and I'll be interested. Fix both and you've got me sold. Do neither and you've got a confliting message to your "community", which to me means it's a horse that'll never get out of the gates. Regards, Shane.
I would like to know if there is some other news about the preloaded content. This content will be in a complete form or will be samples with the 3 times in three days limit.
waddup waddup. decided to answer questions in the post vs another post. sorry if email responses are slow, and sorry I'm not getting to all of your q's. there are 1000s of you and only one of me ;) Thanks again for leaving comments and being nice (to each other; knock me/Zune all you want, but play nice w/ each other) Zune Marketplace will be a separate piece of software (not WMP). You can delete your pre-loaded content. But if you don't, it's on your player forever (not the 3-day-3-play thing). It's v. important to make a distinction here: some things will be available *at launch* which I've outlined. Other things to come later. If any of you have worked in software/hardware dev releases, before, you know what I mean. At some point you say "ok, here's what we can do *at launch* and here's what's up for future releases. When Xbox launched, it launched w/ an ethernet port built it, but no online service. Then Xbox Live launched a year later. So, wireless sharing is the first step, and we enable the future by putting wifi into every device.
What will the dock and remote be like? How will we be able to download movies. Will there be a web browser? Is the resolution 320x240?
So the Zune will not Support Flac or SHN. Thats VERY dissapointing. Will the 30 gb be the only size or will you also offer more sizes. I personally would be able to try to fit my music into 30gb. This Christmas it will be between the Zune and the new 80gb iPod which has gap-less play. Unless the Zune has a very good price tag seems like the iPod will be winning out.
If some one sends me a song can i just purchase it once i have a wifi connection via my zune. I want to sign in on my zune via my live a/c then just tag it as purchased after spending my points. I really dont want to have to wait until I am home then connect it all up to my pc just to buy the track I allready have on my zune.
can you please elaborate on the lack of wmp11 support? why can't the zune store just be one of the options from the online store lists. ( ex. let me use store from within wmp11 ) I really don't see the sense in making a whole new media player, when you can just add the store and device manager into the existing wmp11 interface. by the way, did I mention how much wmp11 rocks? you already have an itunes killer right there ( as far as media management ) please don't reinvent the wheel. or at least explain why it is necessary to have zune marketplace as a seperate entity.also don't like how zune totally ditched playsforsure... =*( I can at least use wmp11 for media management right ( it will still be detected and allow me to sync? ) Sorry for adding to the flood of questions you are getting... you are going to have a long few weeks ahead of you. =) keep up the good work, hope to hear a reply from you soon.
Oh GOOD, it plays podcasts! I was unsure of whether or not this MP3 PLAYER would be able to PLAY MP3s! THANKS FOR THE UPDATE NEWSMASTER
come talk to us on channel9, we have a thread here: http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=234874
Got a few questions! :) 1) Will this use any of the Live Anywhere functionality in the future (as in seeing who's doing what on Xbox Live or any other Live program) 2) Are there any even basic games (such as iPods have basic Solitaire and Music Quiz)? Will we see in the future more advanced games (like the "new" recently released ones for the iPod like Tetris and Pac Man and Zuma and the like) 3) Will the DJ functionality we've heard about be in at launch (as in transmitting to your friends)? I've been so overwhelmed that I might have missed this. 4) What are some of the restrictions that the Zune Marketplace puts on songs (the DRM)? As in, can I only download it X number of times; authorize X number of computers to play/sync with my Zune; Can't listen to it in anything else but Zune Player and the actual Zune hardware, etc? Right now, it's always the case that CD's are always better to get for music because you can do whatever you want to your songs, and not necessarily be limited by DRM... So I want to see if Zune Marketplace will get me buying stuff digitally or if I should stick to buying physical CD's. 5) What sort of headphones will be bundled with Zune? 6) Can you send one to my house for testing purposes? ;)
I can understand not supporting PlaysForSure subscription services if you want people with a Zune to use the Zune service, but not supporting purchased WMA DRM songs from MSN Music, Napster etc. etc. would be a major own goal. It's just a kick in the teeth of people who supported the Microsoft digital music way in the past, and supported the open ecosystem Microsoft was supporting as opposed to the closed system of Apple and iPod + iTunes. Don't make us do the burn to CD / rip back from CD dance.
just to back up what Andrew Simpson is saying, here are some quotes directly from J. So by this philosophy, why can't we use playsforsure with zune? "We have really pretty strong commitment to being compatible with your existing libraries." "So, we really are taking a relatively agnostic approach to different formats." "For us this is not a format play, we're not trying to tell consumers what format they have to keep their media in. We're trying to embrace the most popular formats out there. " I really don't see the harm in allowing playsforsure support. it would give the flexibility for those that want it, but still have the closed atmosphere for those taht want that. ( win win scenario ) either way it doesn't matter to me, because I don't use subscription, but MS's loyal customers of the past shouldn't be shafted now. =/ Can't wait for a zune release date, now I just have to find money for this thing. how about a beta test? I would be happy to test one of those zunes out for you? =P
Is there ANY compatibility -- in either direction -- between Zune and PFS devices with subscription files. Right now, my wife and I have two PFS players and a Yahoo subscription. As I understand it, if one of us were to get a Zune player, we'd have to keep subscribing to Yahoo to feed the "legacy" PFS player, and also subscribe to the Zune service to feed the Zune. (And then we'd have to both use separate applications to sync our devices up, even?) That's just icky.
Zune needs to be able to at least play 'plays for sure' content that was puchased. If you want customers to accept DRM, you need to at least on your own OS platform support compatibility. In many ways, your telling customers who bought into the past way of doing windows media music that you aren't worth the time. It's a waste of money if we lose support from the vendor or can't take our music to newer devices. It's sort of like coming out with a CD player that doesn't play standard audio cd's and selling it as a CD player. In the digital age we should not have to repurchase our music - it should be convertable. Microsoft and the Zune team (since they are microsoft) created a DRM standard on the Windows platform that customers have invested money in (both vendors and end users) and now the standard is being abandonded. Why should we purchase tracks if the vendor is going to drop support later.
Any chance Zune acts as a "Media Center Extender"? That way those with Media Center 2005/Vista, can have the same UI/content for watching tv, pics, music, etc. Being able to experience this from anywhere in my house (besides on my 360 and Media Center PC itself) would be awesome!
Allow me to add my voice to the chorus: will there be Mac compatibility? If not at launch, are there plans for support down the line? I'd love to be able to play with MS' new toy, but if it can't talk to my MacBook, I'm SOL.
International release? Will the Zune Marketplace be available for just the US or will you actually care about old Europe as well? :)
That "wrap it all in DRM" won't last... a fix will be out within a month of the release.... just like my modded ipod, amazing what you can do with a pencil and a soldering iron :D
One more for you, re: media center - can I copy and watch my recorded television on zune??
What was the reason to (from what I see from the product shots) forgo dedicated volume and playback (other than play/pause) as well as lack a "home" button. If I am wrong and those buttons are there, could you point me in the direction of a 360 degree tour?
oh man spartan walrus is right, I didn't even think about that. please tell me you guys have dedicated volume buttons??
Does Zune support WMAPro WMALossless WMAVoice WMVAdvance WMVScreenshot or can instal any decoder?
Those are quite intersting specs, but a few additional questions immediately come to mind: * Why doesn't Zune support more audio formats like e.g. ogg and flac? Especially ogg and the lossless flac would be a real selling point over the IPod. * Will the MPEG4 decoder be able to deal with advanced features like GMC? * Will Zune behave like a UMS when connected via USB? Will we be able to store other data on it? * Will Zune have a real tag-based music library or a directory-based navigation? * Will Zune be compatible with other operating systems (Linux, Apple)? It would be great if you could answer those questions. Thanks, LegalAlien
"There currently isn't a way to sniff out what you are sending, so we wrap it all up in DRM" If it's wrapped in DRM, it's DRM'd music, if it's not, it's mine. This is a deal killer guys, something you have to get around. If you do, talk about viral!
The fact that there is no REAL podcast support is very disappointing. I think you all are totally missing the boat on this one. How hard can it be add some sort of feature to support the COMMUNITY like iTunes is already doing. Just the fact that I can't get all of my fav podcasts on my player without having to manually import them is a turn off for me. I was really looking forward to this device and I have two ipods. Until there is some real podcast support I will not be purchasing a Zune. I am not going to spend my hard earned money on something and just wait around for some future support to be added.
Will videos purchased from the Zune store be able to be viewed on the 360?
If the Zune can play podcast, the ipod is going to be hurt really hard. But if it can't do it, the Zune is in real danger
Would love to see audible format supported perhaps with a rom upgrade down the line.
If you can implement the Neon visualizer (like on the 360) into this player to throw pretty pixels around while jamming away to FM, MP3 or any other music, mark it down as another one already purchased. It would be a first (at lest to my knowledge) portable mp3 player that does visual candy.
Will it be released worldwide before the end of the year or only in America?
"Zune Marketplace will be a separate piece of software (not WMP). You can delete your pre-loaded content. But if you don't, it's on your player forever (not the 3-day-3-play thing)." This message has been up for more than 24 hours and you have answered two questions, one of which I don't remember even being asked (deleting preloaded content). If this is really part of your job, you aren't serving the "community" very well at all.
How do you sleep at night?
ok, back atcha. lots of folks have asked about Mac support: Not right now, but we'll continue to listen to folks and customers and respond to what they tell us they want and need. So the video market is still evolving. We think video will ultimately be a compelling feature for consumers and a video store is something we are exploring. talking about what folks really want today we think there is a lot more to we can do with music. so that's the focus: taking the music experience to the next level with wireless sharing. Wireless DJ function that many saw in the FCC report: at launch, it's just wireless sharing. but having wifi in every Zune enables new shared experiences around music and video in the coming months and years, including the idea of wireless DJ. volume control: no separate buttons; you control the volume using the buttons on the wheel (see UI video http://www.zuneinsider.com/2006/09/zune_interface_.html) I usually sleep on my back, with a medium sized pillow.
"There currently isn't a way to sniff out what you are sending, so we wrap it all up in DRM. We can’t tell if you are sending a song from a known band or your own home recording so we default to the safety of encoding." What a load of 'hit that is. The files not purchased from your store are none of your business, literally. I buy CDs. I buy videos from Amazon, and a few from iTMS. None of that am I at all interested in sharing. But I also download Podcasts, Creative Commons material, and videos that are freely distributable. The real viral stuff that I'm actually interested in letting my friends watch/hear. You then apply a layer to DRM to it, and it suddenly becomes worthless. It's no longer viral. You encourage breaking the Creative Commons license by applying DRM to those files. You ruin your PR completely and tarnish the name of your new product by creating a device with big business' interests ahead of the user's. Those are not your files. You should not be touching them. You should not be ruining them with your DRM. If your concern is preventing the spread of copyrighted files, make all your other products flag copyrighted files that are ripped, then apply the DRM to only those copyright-flagged files. Leave others' files alone, and don't violate the interests of the copyright holders that chose a more open, more free license for their work. Can you stopping acting like MS for one second? Expect litigation.
Are there plans to integrate the Zune Music Store with Windows Media Center? I'm not talking about files sitting in some directory. I'm talking about hooking the client into Media Center? I'm a subscription-based fan (Rhapsody) and I want that unlimited library of songs available on my Media Center enabled TV. (I'll be using the Xbox 360 extender and Windows Vista).
Any chance Zune player will also be a satellite receiver too? Not sure if Microsoft has had enough time to make deals with Sirius (preferred) or XM to allow us to listen to our Sirius content on the zune player. It'd be sweet if you did :) I imagine that might be a good V2 feature.
There's a lot of people flaming on this right now in the community. I hope I sound a bit more levelheaded with this, but how can you expect the RIAA to allow you to share music at all, DRM or not? You could argue that you're not sharing the music at all, but rather the users are. Of course, that's the argument Napster used, and they got nuked by the RIAA. Personally, I think that if people would respect copyright and not share music we wouldn't even need DRM and that would make me very happy. However, we live in a pretty twisted world, so sometimes things like this are necessary. But not here, not in this context. Sharing music is sharing music. And sharing music is illegal, last I checked.
I literally laughed out loud at the DRM scheme.
Will the Zune have Video/Audio out so I can connect a stand alone 7" screen if I want to watch it in the car on a trip? Can you sync wirelessly via home network?
Back. Ok, Zune doesn't do wireless synch. Working on the other questions (I don't know the answer to a lot of them, and I'm just one guy)
I would love to see Zune able to wirelessly stream content (audio only is fine) from an XP, MCE, or Vista machine running Windows Media Connect/WMP11. Any possibility of this?
Why is system compatibility even an issue? Has the Zune been developed with the same broken functionality as the iPod? Take a look at the other high end players out there, their strenghts are that they can play anything, and work with any system (simply acting as a USB hard drive when connected to a computer). If I'm required to use any software to connect this device it's already LESS functional than my iRiver, which, by the way, also lets me share music with other MP3 players via host mode, and doesn't wreck the music by transforming it into the sub-standard WMA or covering it in DRM. If you really want to take a stab at the iPod you need to do some things that it does not; Allow access to the device as a plain harddrive, support all music formats (Where is the OGG and FLAC support?), support all video formats (Again, where is DivX Xvid?). I'm an animator by trade, and a device that let me show off my videos to clients when I'm out and about would be fantastic, but having to transcode into stange formats doesn't make this a friendly option. Locking people to iTunes is the iPod's biggest failing - Don't make the same mistake.
===== Cesar ===== Just curious when you're going to respond to comments regarding DRM as it is something I too am very curious to hear an explanation to. Who gave you the right to DRM'ify MY files? Certainly not me. There is definite potential for litigation with this. What do you guys plan to do about it? -- Jerome
I have two questions, first will the Zune Marketplace work like iTunes where I can just put a CD in and choose what format to rip to and have it appear in my library? That'll pretty much make or break the Zune for me. It's far too complcated for me to rip a CD to MP3 files and then add those onto the Zune somehow. And I have to have something nicer then WMA on there. Really, the simplicity of iTunes is the only thing keeping me attached to Apple. And second, brown and green? Black and blue is not bad, but brown and green? Zune becomes "Spewn" so easily.
Suppose I am a music artist and I decide to license even one of my tracks that I freely distribute on my website under a license that disallows DRM to restrict my song, ie. I refuse to allow people to play my music using DRM media players whether it's software or hardcoded, hand-held device, laptop or desktop. You would be instantly infringing this license every single time Zune restricts the playing of or sharing of my music. This is absolutely ridiculous. Why should I be forced to listen to music I legally purchased on your terms?! If people can tell me I may only use their software under conditions X, Y and Z not to mention the rest of the alphabet then I will excercise my 'rights' and create some sort of license that prohibits the use of DRM in any playback device/program to play my songs. Unless DRM is scrapped no one will even consider purchasing one of these, no matter how otherwise 'featureful' they are. I doubt very much people will want MS telling them what they can and can't do with their music.
Last time I checked the FAQ of the CC-Licence told me: "What happens if someone tries to protect a CC-licensed work with digital rights management (DRM) tools? If a person uses DRM tools to restrict any of the rights granted in the license, that person violates the license." And I checked that five minutes before posting this comment so I don't think that has changed. To make it clear: MS is violating the CC-System. Well... There was a man named Adam Curry and he had a trial in Amsterdam about a CC-Licence and won the case. My podcast is licenced under CC like hundreds, thousands - well - millions of files on the net. Podcasts, music, videos. Who gave you the right to interfere with my personal rights and cripple my files with a shitty DRM-system? Without asking? You have a problem and you should answer the questions about the DRM-Thing - and I predict there'll be law suits and a lot of bad PR if someone tells the folks at BoingBoing about that... Ad Astra
I'd also like to know, if I share a file with someone, can they then share that file? (with or without the restrictions). If you can't share a file that has been shared with you, it's hardly 'viral' is it? If a virus killed everyone it infected straight away, it wouldn't spread, if this DRM nonscence stops people from 'infecting' others, it defeats the purpose. So far the only solution I have seen for the blatent dis-reguard for the CC licence is to not allow 3rd party music to be shared. But it's not long before we see a modified CC licence that require that if sharing is possible it is required. Surely someone thought of this before the player was announced, why are we not seeing any information about it?
Salmonmoose: that's a really good point. Unless I am mistaken, the Zune actually violates all media licensed under the Creative Commons license. I can forsee a lot of angry artists and users not to mention possible legal action.
"Safety"? Safety for whom?
The Zune will fail for the DRM. Nothing will be an "iPod Killer" until it's inexpensive and unencumbered with DRM. Microsoft needs to stop treating it's customers like criminals.
To be fair SAM, the iPod itself is loaded with DRM- at least if you use iTunes. Even if you don't- music on the iPod can't be removed without third party software that Apple breaks compatability with regularly. That said- DRM will be the iPod killer- customers don't want to do less with their music. DRM is going to be the achilles heel in all the music players.
Just a final thought: CC-licensed content can be identified by computers (the license comes in three steps: human readable deed, billion page document for the lawyers and a computer readable RDF). If the Zune could recognise CC-licensed content and not wrap it in the DRM layer (guessing that is how you guys included the DRM), then users could freely share CC-licensed material and anything not CC-lisensed would be affected by the DRM. Again though this doesn't fix it entirely either because there are many other licenses out there too without computer-readable RDF metadata. The best thing to do is scrap the DRM. Entirely. Safest for MS as well not just in terms of the success of the Zune but legally. Mhh, one final, final thought: wonder how long it will take for Linux to be ported to the Zune. :D
I think it's untrue that the Zune player can't tell the difference between DRM and non-DRM content. It must have a way to do so or else it would play DRM music that's not authorized, basically allowing people to steal DRM music off of P2P networks. I'm sure that's not the case. I don't like the idea that music I recorded myself is arbitrarily stamped with DRM whether I like it or not. The good thing is, I don't have to buy a Zune if it imposes these pointless restrictions... and I won't. I expect the Zune to be the next Microsoft "Bob".
Including the MS Word paperclip?
DRM-Zune over Creative Commons? Microsoft Rules!!! Go! Go!
Arbitrarily DRM wrapping my content is a deal breaker. G'bye zune. (Yes, Apple's & Napster's sucks too, but at least I can burn a non-drm'd cd and re-rip.)
Someone wrote: "Unless I am mistaken, the Zune actually violates all media licensed under the Creative Commons license. I can forsee a lot of angry artists and users not to mention possible legal action." The MP3 format violates all sorts of ill-drafted licenses. Ripping a CD often violates the license. It's what music players do, it seems.
A PS on this: I believe that Zune only wraps the file in DRM if you (the Zune owner) decides to send song. In short, the user is the one violating the Creative Commons license, not MS. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.
in all seriousness: why can't you just make a simple mp3 player? why is that such an absolute, 100%, when-the-cows-fly-type impossibility?
Cesar Menendez, It's quite sad to see the point man get slashed & burnt for something he is a part of. Dude, you're not even replying to the DRM posts anymore. Your silence is quite telling.... Make sure to have marketing's official statement on MS' stance re: DRM ready 1st thing on Monday- BRIGHT & EARLY! Aslo, Next time, make sure you're not the appointed messenger of DRM. As you are now currently aware: you will be burnt at stake, regardless. Tell the boys & girls over at Marketing (& also, Litigation) to get ahold of the peops over at 1.) Defective By Design, 2.) EFF (eff.org) and 3.) Creative Commons. I smell a lawsuit coming, but I'm sure Litigation has already prepped themselves for this, though.
"Your honor, the federal courts have upheld that despite the substantially non-infringing use of a system, a company's encouragement of people to trade music files makes them accountable for the infringement of their clients.(re Napster & Grokster) We understand that the defendant is claiming that their distibution method of wrapping files in DRM & time limiting usage makes the action fall under fair use, however we humbly direct the courts attention to the [insert number of CC songs available] songs licensed for distribution under the Creative Commons liscense. The actions of the defendant place their users in direct violation of the terms of this license, and as such, MS, by encouraging the users of Zune products to violate the license - and thus copyright law as they no longer have a legal copy of the music, is a direct contributor to the copyright infringment of it's users. We feel that the damage done to our clients reaches into the $[asshat number with no relationship to reality] and so ask MS to pay them $[even higher number] to cover our clients losses, their emotional distress, and legal fees. We additionally request an injunction prohibiting MS from further enabling this gross violation of copyright law."
I am an archivist, and I listen to a lot of pre-1924 recordings which I digitally restore from vintage shellac 78s and transfer to MP3. Does this mean that if I wanted to share my restorations with others, the Zune would apply DRM to a music file that is clearly in the Public Domain? I have a friend who is a musician playing the college coffee house circuit. If he wanted to share his own compositions and recorded performances with students at a gig as a demo, the recipient would be limited to 3 plays/3 days? What right does Zune have wrapping DRM around his music files without his permission?
QUOTE: lots of folks have asked about Mac support: Not right now, but we'll continue to listen to folks and customers and respond to what they tell us they want and need. What incentive is there for a Mac user to become one of the customers you are going to listen and respond to if the player doesn't work with their computer? You have a logic problem here.
QUOTE: To be fair SAM, the iPod itself is loaded with DRM- at least if you use iTunes. Even if you don't- music on the iPod can't be removed without third party software that Apple breaks compatability with regularly. That isn't true. My iPod is a 3g and I've never seen any Apple update that broke compatibility with the third party software I've always used to back up my ipod.
I'm not going to buy something that arbitrarily applies DRM to files that are forbidden to contain it. Thanks for playing.
The DRM wrapping broke the deal for me too. I'll wait for the third party wifi mp3 player from Taiwan that allows me to just share my stuff like I want to. Even iTunes lets you share your non-DRM content with other users, I see no reason why MS needs to raise the legal bar here.
I think the answer to all of these questions is pretty clear: Microsoft and the Music Industry have lawyers and you(presumably) don't and that's really all the right they think they need.
It has DRM? HEll, no way I'm buying
Will Zune have LIve anywhere ? This seems to becoming out this year and live anywhere should be out next year. I don't want to buy if I have to wait for version 2.0 to have live anywhere. Any answer on this ?
Wow, you really fucking ruined it. This is coming from an Microsoft fan. What the hell is the point in having the ability to send songs if you can only listen to them 3 times?!?!? It will take longer to send it than it will to listen to it them 3 times. I just hope someone hacks the Zune to remove the DRM shit. What's next? Rootkits?
can I wipe the OS and put Linux on it??? then I'll be able to do what I want with MY OWN content... The Zune hardware is nice, I just hate your software and DRM.
Hopefully some clarification here can be raised over applying DRM to everything shared? and also not allowing PFS DRM songs to added to your Zune. I've been a big fan of download stores such as MSN Music, and downloaded if not hundreads of songs from them, now I'm being told I'm not going to be able to download them onto my Zune? - Even though I've been supporting the PFS sure scheme, and purchasing MS endorsed MP3 players. It sounds like MS are you trying to encourage users to go to the likes of Limewire and download unprotected songs from there! I'm not sure where ths DRM sharing stuff is going either - when I download a DRM protected song from MSN Music, and then move it to another PC, media player on that PC simply asks for my details so it can transfer the liscene from one PC to the other. Surely the Zune could do the same - eg. User A sends DRM protected song to User B, when User B trys to play song, they are presented the option to purchase that song. What happens could be easily modifed as DRM is quite flexible in what can allow or not allow, eg. DRM protected song could be sampled on the Zune its been sent too and then not play until the user has purchased a liscense for that song.
I'm a little confused about the extent of the wireless DJ features. Do you just select a few tracks or a playlist to transfer over to anybody who accepts in range, or is their like a 'live dj' kinda thing. So that each track you listen to is played at the same time on any listener's devices. Is the Zune software a stand-alone peice of software, or is it like a WMP plug-in? It seems a little silly that i would have to import all my music from WMP11 to the zune software and THEN onto my zune in order to play it. especially since wmp can sync up music players by itself.
I was looking at the comments on a lazy Saturday, and my colleagues were curious about the fuss over DRM'ing Creative Commons music. After my explaination, I can safely say that Microsoft has 6 less potential buyers, which I am thankful for. Less annoyance for them.
@ RC Master I'm hoping it would just act like another online store for WMP10/11. I'd love to see some crossplatform linking here too, download a song on your Zune, then logon to you Zune account on a PC and have the song downloaded there too.
You're aware that applying DRM to Creative Commons music is a violation of the license that the creator applied, right? Much like pkchuckiss, I won't be buying the Zune.
I was looking for an alternative to the others players but i saw the "wrap it up in drm" and pooof! like magic my interest in the zune died. Also the big compagnies likes to make you buy your things many times (vhs -> dvd -> blueray/hddvd and the tape -> cd -> digital music) I bought a lot of music online for things i could not get on a device made by they compagny that put this name on a standard to be sure of the compatibility. We want control over our stuff, don't tell us what to do...
You seem to have collected a lot of negative feedback regarding the DRM features. Contrary to all the DRM-haters, I think the restrictions are a great idea. The more MS encumbers the thing with locks and gates, the more likely it is to fail miserably. With any luck, you'll be on the receiving end of some really nasty PR-damaging lawsuits as well. Then, hopefully, your foolishness will serve as a warning to others tempted to try similar schemes.
no, you don't have the right to wrap my media in your drm. yes, i will be voting with my dollars.
I have read the comments and come to the conclusion that the so-called "zune" devices are rubbish. I would rather carry a freshly laid dog terd around in my pocket than one of those "zune" things.
Does it seriously not play Plays For Sure music? That's almost unbelievable, isn't it? Good luck. On another note, I'll agree with the others who note your disingenuous use of the word "safety." I suppose you're protecting me from myself.
No wireless sync is a dealbreaker for me, As I only use my PMP in the car via linein and a cigar ligher adaptor it would be a huge bonus over my iriver if I could leave it in the car and put new music on it from the house. At the moment I only put new tunes on about once a month because I have to unplug it and bring it inside and plug it in and then do it. Too much effort. Ideally it would just pop up on my network as another computer with a shared drive that I can copy MP3's into. would be nice if it would support flac/ogg as most of what I donwload now is flac rips, and I transcode to ogg for my iriver since wma sounds like crap at low bitrates (128 or so), But I can see that the chances of it supporting this are slim to none since MS have an interst in selling there own inferior codec to people to use.
You're releasing a media player that APPLIES DRM?!? Wow. Your project is doomed. Talk about a giant step backwards. And Microsoft ain't that far forward to start with. I mean, come on. Get with the program. You're actually releasing a consumer electronic device that's broken BEFORE YOU BUY IT. I'm going to tell everyone I know what a piece of crap this is right off the bat.
One more digital device I won't be buying. Do you know why, MS? Because it's not really your property when the seller loads a bunch of bull$#!+ restrictions on what you can do with it - that's called leasing, and I have no interest in leasing from MS. Why can't you just sell what people want? Here's a few clues: No DRM, cross-platform interoperability, backward compatability, freedom to tinker, and a EULA that anyone can understand. Now that'd be a REAL ipod killer.
It only DRMs music if you use the "share" option, which is a feature that the iPod doesn't even have. Don't want a song to be DRMed? Don't use Zune to share it. People complaining about Zune breaking the creative commons license are a bit hypocritical. There are licenses today that say "no encoding whatsoever". Every MP3 ripper ever made breaks these licenses. Where's the big stink over that? If you're going to defend Creative Commons license, you should be defending the right to have ANY license on a song. And I don't think you want to do that. Let's face it, once a song is yours, you can do what you want with it. Including DRMing it.
Ha! This is just awesome. With all the money Microsoft has, you'd think they'd be able to hire some people who know what they're doing. Instead, they end up with an iPod clone that's bigger, heavier, holds less content and violates so many basic principles.
Seems like a major oversight not to support Ogg and FLAC formats. Any chance of adding those codecs? Also, will the Zune be able to connect to any of my GNU/Linux boxes? If not I won't be buying one.
OK, I've got it figured out why they are DRMing everything that leaves the Zune. First, it's to prevent endless sharing of copyrighted material (of course), and second, because if you you want endless sharing of your own personal material, copyrighted or not, then Zune is simply not the device for this purpose. MS makes no assertions that Zune is the device of choice for such use. If you want endless copying of your own personal material, go another route. It's that simple.
Someone said, "People complaining about Zune breaking the creative commons license are a bit hypocritical. There are licenses today that say 'no encoding whatsoever'. Every MP3 ripper ever made breaks these licenses. Where's the big stink over that?" If there really is such a license, it is not enforcable thanks to something called 'fair use' that allows consumers to make copies for personal use. The only thing that trumps fair use (under US law) is DRM. Removing the DRM from protected file is in most cases a violation of the DMCA. But ripping an unemcombered CD to MP3 is perfectly legal, despite what any hypothetical license might say about it.
Cesar, but what about a Zune SDK? Is Zune running Windows MCE for portable devices or true Windows Mobile or something else entirely? Microsoft's real advantage over Apple has always been the accesibility of development tools so MS can blow away Apple with the number of offerings/apps available for their platform. Please tell me there's an SDK available or in the works. Thanks. Mike
Zune won't compete with iPod... Let's face it, all Zune is doing is copying the iPod model. Yea, it adds a little community but without a large number of zunes to share with, there is no community. You have to build the install base and since the zune and the store is an iPod clone, it won't make a dent. It's too bad as I'm not a fan of the iPod/Itunes/Fairplay model. I do like subscription (especially for my Kids who are still discovering music). There are tons of people with iPods that have no clue to the lurking issues with DRM. They may not be able to use their tunes where they want/when they want on future platforms. It's a shame. It's actually better to buy the CD and rip it than to purchase digital music - just isn't as instant and that is why iTunes is so successful. PlaysforSure has the same issues but at least there is a subscription model for it. WHy no plays for sure support?? Sorta sucks for existing windows users: - no plays for sure support means that if you have any non zune players in your household yo'll be using two services or just not getting a zune yet. - no support for already purchased windows media (really stick it to people who supported MS in the past) - no support for WMP 11. Let's just confuse users more with multiple players and librarires on their machines. Will therb support for WMP 11 media player other network players like the Roku or TV's comming with Windows Media Connect? How about MCE and extenders? By removing support for WMP 11 you sort of remove yourself from supporting all these neat ways of sharing music. I thought zune was about sharing? Plays for Sure is only a failure because of the 3rd party implementations. Look at Napster, Rhapsody, and other services. They are terrible looking designs that are hard to use. Their support for renewing and managing licenses stink. The problem wasn't plays for sure. When subscription licenses work it's great. It's managing those license in these apps or managing libraries from within these apps that stinks. It's these crappy 3rd party stores that has caused problems with plays for sure. Then look at Urge and WMP 11. One libary and a nice interface integrated well with the rest of your music. It's a great iTunes competitor. Now look at the Zune store. It looks almost like Urge/WMP 11 with a few improvements in UI. I would not be surprised if it is built off of Urge/WMP11. Why ditch urge/wmp11? I'm sure MTV isn't real happy. So with Zune not supporting other stores and having it's closed store, you're copying the iPod. (oh there is subscription which is better). Since it is a copy and there is no one to share music with since Zune isn't going to be big for a few years (if at all), I would guess that 90% of the users looking will just buy the original. How to compete: You'd have me sold and I'm sure others if you would just ditch DRM. Use watermarking on purchased content and continue DRM on subscription. With watermarking, if the files ever do get put on a public network, you can trace who originally shared it. I'm sure 99% of your users knowing that they are traceable would be good citizens. Let's face it, the music is already on the 'net anyway so DRM is not preventing the sharing of music. It's just causing headaches for well behaved users/ It would be one difference from iTunes you could sell - use your music anywhere how you want. Share it too. If the major labels won't go for it, still do it for the independents and SHOW the majors that it works. This gesture would likely get the techy/early adopters on board to zune. Their word of mouth and endorsement will go along way to building the Zune community. With the currently proposed Zune model, it's an iTunes clone with a wifi antenna. Make it revolutionize how music is sold (no DRM) and you'll have a hit. iTunes was version one of the revolution. Make Zune version 2. Right now, Zune is sort of version 1.1. iTunes locks people in. They won't choose Zune. You have a choice to make Zune open or closed. The closed system will not succeed against the iPod. Give the users a clear choice. Based on this and other threads, the Zune choice looks pretty muddy.